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sandranian · Site Admin

This is being sold as Mottet's bike. While the seller has impressive feedback, and I wouldn't be surprised if we actually knew who he was (I don't right now), I would have thought that Mottet's bike would have been smaller than this....

Item number: 190230344252

Also interesting that it is a 753 model, and the sticker is in English. Does anyone know if the 753 stickers on the 1988 Replicas were in French or in English...or if Reynolds even made a French 753 sticker? I would think that Systeme U would use a French decal on their team bikes....

In looking at the pics of the 1988 Replica's on this forum, the fork decal is in French, but the frame decal is in English (753).

greyhundguy

Did Charly paint his own name on the Top tube? That's the way it appears. Confused

Jay

sandranian · Site Admin

I looked at Fignon's bike from 1986...and it appears that it might have been that "cartoony" or amateurish, but the picture (poster) is blurry. I will do a little more digging.

greyhundguy

Stephan,
I find it interesting that the seller has so many Team bikes up for sale. All had badly worn parts that have been replaced with like originals. Also, if you had a Rare (?) Team bike with Black Chrome, why would you have Cycle Art restore it? Wouldn't you want it in ORIGINAL condition? Wonder if he has the original parts???

Jay

greyhundguy

...restore it with black paint?

Jay

verktyg

I'd venture to guess that there weren't that many French bikes built with Reynolds 753 tubing. I have a (DARK SIDE) 1988 Peugeot Chorus with the newer style French Reynolds 753 decals like those listed by Cyclomondo.

The English decal may be original on this Gitane because either no French 753 decals were available or the French decal may have been damaged during installation or.... it could have been replaced later with the only style available.

Tubing decals were moved to the down tube because the ones placed on the seat tube were too easily damaged when the bike was held in a bike stand. On the other hand the down tube stickers usually get scratched by the front brake caliper.

BTW, I view any bike "remodeled" by CycleArt with great suspicion. They take too much "artistic license". I can spot one of their jobs from 20 feet away! Confused

As far as original team bikes are concerned, there are several well-to-do Left Coast collectors who have a large number of rare bikes and they sell some of them from time to time. The problem with any collectible is that without some kind of evidence of the provenance (documented history) any one can claim anything they want about an item - "George Washington slept here"! Rolling Eyes

There's a local Northern California bike collector who supposedly had some connections at Bianchi in Italy during the late 80s, early 90s. The story goes that he was able to access some old warehouses and storage areas at Bianchi and came up with some of Fausto Coppi's original bikes. He had documented provenance for some of the bikes. He used to store them along with his collection of French built Alex Singer and Rene Herse bikes in a friend of mine's building. In those days the Europeans considered these old bikes of little value! Shocked

By the mid 1970s professional bike racing became a big business in Europe. Teams and riders had lots of spare bikes. The more I look into LeMond "Team" bikes the more of them I find. Yesterday a frame builder/restorer friend told me that back in the day he painted 20 LeMond red, yellow and blue Team Z bikes that he thought were going to team members. He said that he also painted some of the Bottecchia purple and DayGlo green Team bikes for LeMond (2 of the frames he painted for me where done with some of the left over DayGlo green paint). Cool

So remember when looking at collector's bikes, "George Washington slept here"! Twisted Evil

Chas.

Gtane

This bike is a tough call but it looks good as a piece in itself.

The campag equipment is way too polished and if this is a genuine team bike (frame), then the original parts should ideally be retained and sold with it. The wheels are certainly not from '86 with the 8 speed, as the seller indicates.

As for the 753 fork transfers, as far as I know they should be in French. On my '88 replica the main downtube transfer is in English, and the forks are in French and I understand that to be correct and genuine. It could well be that the Gitane factory had no more French transfers for the forks and used English. The thing with team bikes is that they often used all manner of bits and pieces to not only use, but test too. It can sometimes be extremely difficult to know for sure with team bikes.

The other interesting detail is the race number tag. It shows no sign of wear (where the allen bolt, or similar, should have been screwed in and out many, many times). If this was a race machine one can be sure this would show some signs of rust or at least use.

I'd like to see the details on the bottom bracket. Rider's names or initials were not necessarily stamped here but that information might give us a clue.

Information about its history would also be helpful.

We could all of course be completely bamboozled only to find that it is indeed the genuine article.

Tim

verktyg

Caveat emptor! Twisted Evil

Chas.

greyhundguy

I went back and read all of the sellers listings. Sounds like he was keeping Cycle Art busy and maybe ran out of money for this one.
http://cgi.ebay.com/1987-Gewiss-Bianchi-Team-Time-Trial-Frameset-Frame_W0QQitemZ190230340844QQihZ009QQcategoryZ98084QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

jay

sandranian · Site Admin

I am more interested in the size of the Gitane, seeing as it was not, in my opinion repainted. Also...the Gitane does not appear to have actually been used in racing: It appears brand new, and if the parts were in fact worn out, why wouldn't the frame show more usage? Who knows...maybe just bad pictures?

Anyhow, tell me if you think that Mottet could fit on that ebay frameset, which appears to be bigger than a 53.5 ctc. The stem looks long too. I am undecided...

greyhundguy

sandranian · Site Admin

What's your opinion? I guess it is close enough. I always thought that Mottet was smaller than that. Maybe his head was just huge or something....

*********
Another interesting issue is the placement of the number peg. Here is a picture of my 1987 Team Pro's placement on the top tube. It seems to match the 1988 placement in the picture of Mottet above. But look at the purported 1986 Mottet bike.

greyhundguy

I think the Blue bike is larger, the stem too long, and the handlebars HUGE in comparison to his. If he is like any other Pro Athelete, and I'm sure he is, each bike he rode would be IDENTICAL. IMHO

Jay

Gtane

The frame size shots are very interesting indeed. The difference is quite significant.

Here are a few Gitane team shots from the Prendas site offering more insight but unfortunately the years are not shown.

http://www.prendas.co.uk/details.asp?ID=1839&imgID=1393

'86 was the last year for Super Record and the new group was C Record so some bikes would have had C and others Super. C Record was listed as having the first Delta brakes but they could well have put side pulls on, as shown, because the early Deltas were extremely difficult to set-up.

Tim

sandranian · Site Admin

Best picture...