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Vintage Gitane for long distance rides? 
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 11:37 am Reply with quote
citternmaker
Joined: 23 Jun 2007
Posts: 51
I'm currently working on a pre-1973 TdF, and plan to ride it on occasional club rides, paid 100K rides, etc, as a retro-alternate choice to my modern bike. I've seen some really nice TdF examples posted here and I kind of wondered....how many of the members here still regularly take their vintage Gitanes for rides of over 40 miles (i.e. Metric Centuries, Centuries, etc)?

And for those who ride their vintage Gitanes on long rides, what is your preference..to conserve them (keep the patina) or restore them to like-new condition?

Thanks,

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Ron Banks
Fort Worth, Texas
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Super Corsa for long distance rides 
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 6:49 pm Reply with quote
vanhelmont
Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 242
Location: Florida
I bought an early '70s Super Corsa frame with the intention of building it for rides on rail trails and club rides. Other than the lack of braze-ons I really don't think I could get a better frame for the purpose. The intention is an upgrade from the '84 Trek 500 I bought with the same purpose in mind a couple of years ago. The two frames have pretty similar geometry. Both have plenty of room for larger tires and fenders if you want them, moderately long wheelbase and relaxed angles. The Gitane is a little lighter, cooler, and gives me an excuse to buy more bike parts off of Ebay.

I'm not going out of my way to make it original, so it's getting MAFAC racers instead of competition, and first generation chorus cranks instead of nuovo record, and a Carleton fork (since the frame came without one) which lets me use non-French headset and stem. I'm undecided about touch-up or respray. Since Florida is pretty flat a 5-speed freewheel is OK, so that much will stay original.
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Old rides 
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 8:16 pm Reply with quote
verktyg
Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 2814
Location: SF Bay Area
I frequently ride with the local Classic Rendezvous group. Pre 1983 bikes are the norm on these rides (pre index shifting). Italian and British bikes from the 60s and 70s are the most common marques with an occasional French bike showing up. Some of the rides have themes like Fausto Coppi's birthday when Celeste is the color de jour (Bianchi sick room green). Shocked

We had a ride last year with something like 9 classic Bianchi bikes including TWO rare 1949 Paris-Roubaix models. These had Campy Paris-Roubaix rear derailleurs with a single shifter rod on the seat stay. To shift you reached down and loosened the derailleur with the rod. Then you pedaled backwards which moved the axle forward then shifted the chain to a different sprocket. These bikes only had 4 speed freewheels and a single chainring but the guys riding them were off the front for most of the ride.

Most of the rides are 25 to 35 miles with a reasonable amount of climbing. The week before last a number of the folks did a local century on classic bikes.

I have a problem with bikes that are "too pretty" - I never ride them because I don't want to get them scratched or dirty. One frequent suggestion for an older bike is to clean it up, get it in good riding condition and then put some miles on it to see if you like they way it rides. You be surprised at how good an old bike can look cleaned up with a little touch up paint.

Most French made competitive road bikes from the late 60s through mid 70s were designed for long races on rough roads. Because of this they make excellent long distance fast touring bikes. Make sure that you have a comfortable saddle and enjoy! Cool

Chas.
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 3:48 am Reply with quote
Gtane
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 681
Location: UK
Great questions. Thanks for posting.

My only Gitane is 20 years old this year, and steel, and may perhaps be classed as an older lady. I do ride the machine but only on fine days and as often as I can but if there's a hint of rain, it stays inside. I don't have any problems at all in riding reasonable and long distances on steel frames of any age. The most important factor, for me, is the riding position. So long as the machine is correctly set-up there should be no issues, perhaps only mechanical. Comfort is of prime importance and I would only not ride a machine if it was not comfortable. In the instance of not riding a machine because it was not comfortable, I would sell it unless it was of historical interest, so making it an interesting museum or reference piece. Luck plays a part too in finding an older machine of the right frame size in order to get the right riding position.

I try to keep a machine in as original condition as possible unless it is in dire need of a complete restoration through structural or age decay and surprisingly, I've seen very few machines in that category. Elbow grease, time, love and passion are all key ingredients in maintaining a machine in original condition and make a huge difference to the overall look and feel. A few chips and signs of general wear and tear have stories to tell and I feel benefit the machine in many ways. However, after all this there can be a desire, and challenge, to fully restore a machine, regardless of condition, to its former glory of which there are many stunning examples to be found.

So, really, for me, it's just a case of getting out and enjoying the machine. In my opinion, there is nothing to compare to the ride of steel and the way that it responds to the road and rider.

Keep the steel turning...

Tim

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Re: Vintage Gitane for long distance rides? 
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 5:38 am Reply with quote
lofter
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 1162
citternmaker wrote:
And for those who ride their vintage Gitanes on long rides, what is your preference..to conserve them (keep the patina) or restore them to like-new condition?

Thanks,

when i go out to ride i do usually 30 to 40 miles on my gitanes. im going to do a 350 mile long tour the end of this month . its a personal thing as far as preserving them . i like to keep them close to stock as i can . i dont want to paint it unless its really bad and absolutely needs to. my grantour is pretty much stock xcept for the fenders and quill stem and bars and levers.
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 9:29 am Reply with quote
verktyg
Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 2814
Location: SF Bay Area
Gtane wrote:
I do ride the machine but only on fine days and as often as I can but if there's a hint of rain, it stays inside. Tim


Funny thing, I bought my 1984 Gitane Super Corsa frame on eBay to build a beater bike for use during our rainy season (Nov-Mar here in NorCal). Over the past year it's become one of my favorite riding and handling bikes and it never goes out in the rain. I don't even like to get it dusty! Crying or Very sad

Gtane wrote:
I don't have any problems at all in riding reasonable and long distances on steel frames of any age. The most important factor, for me, is the riding position. So long as the machine is correctly set-up there should be no issues, perhaps only mechanical. Comfort is of prime importance and I would only not ride a machine if it was not comfortable. In the instance of not riding a machine because it was not comfortable, I would sell it unless it was of historical interest, so making it an interesting museum or reference piece. Tim


A few months ago I went to "the dark side" and bought an all original 1967 Peugeot PX10. Now that's a bike that's uncomfortable! I never liked Peugeots back in the day and now I know why! Mad

I agree with you that comfort and fit are a big issue especially on any ride over about 10 miles. The PX10 is going to be relegated to an occasional "show" ride along with several other old bikes that I have.

Back in the day, I lusted for a Cinelli. One day someone brought their Cinelli frame into the shop and traded it in for another frame. It was a silver mid 70s 56cm in really great condition. That afternoon I threw a Campy NR gruppo on it and road it home after work. When I brought it back in the morning I hung it up in the display area with a price tag on it. The frame was made out of heavy gage Columbus SP tubing and was so stiff that it was uncomfortable to ride.

Riding should be comfortable and enjoyable. That's why i suggest that someone who as acquired an older bike ride it for a while before doing any restoration.

A good quality bike properly maintained should last a lifetime. I've seen a few steel road bikes with premature frame failures that were raced hard. These were generally made of thinner gage tubing than was used on most production bikes from the classic era plus they may have failed because of poor construction practices.

I don't ever recall seeing a frame failure on any Gitane bike so go ride! Very Happy

Chas.
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 9:36 am Reply with quote
DBLPE
Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 6
Check out my newly restored 71 Super Corsa on another post.
That bike has over 30,000 miles on it. Last year I rode it on Oklahoma Freewheel, 450 miles across Oklahoma. It will serve you well on long distance rides.
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 11:54 am Reply with quote
Gtane
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 681
Location: UK
Quote:
Check out my newly restored 71 Super Corsa on another post.


That's a nice machine DBPLE and 30k miles is very impressive. It clearly fits you well and that's all that matters. Just great, and it's a a real head turner in black. Lovely. I agree with Chas' comment regards steel bikes lasting a lifetime. A little care goes a long way and after all, we're only maintaining them for the next generation and beyond.

The saddle of choice for me is the Brooks Pro, without any doubt, but when keeping machines in period condition the Brooks does not always feature. I personally think it's worth changing to the Pro or your favourite rest simply for comfort and rideability but retaining the original saddle as part of the kit.

Quote:
A few months ago I went to "the dark side" and bought an all original 1967 Peugeot PX10.


Chas, so have you sold the Peugeot or is it now part of the collection for historical purposes only?

I'm very much with you on the beater bike. I've done exactly the same thing. I usually end up really enjoying the completion of the project or getting the machine to sound condition only to never get it wet or dirty. Then the hunt is on for another beater, the real beater that will be ridden whenever, wherever, perhaps... ...and so the collection builds. Aaaaah!

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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 4:07 pm Reply with quote
citternmaker
Joined: 23 Jun 2007
Posts: 51
Thanks everyone for chiming in on my questions! It's really good to hear that y'all are riding your older Gitanes for long distances and that you're encouraging me to do the same.

Part of my curiousity about using my TdF for local centuries, (at least from what I remember) is that my old one rode much better on rough chipseal than my new bike (built on a 2006 Aluminum Masi frame). The Masi is really nice and I'll keep on riding it, but it's just stiff enough to suck the life out of you when you're at mile 60 and the chipseal surface starts getting bad.

After 28 years of riding a too-big TdF (62cm), I finally got the chance to take a short ride on my 53cm frame today. I'm completely hooked again! I can't wait to get the corncob (12-18 freewheel) off the rear hub and replace it with something a little more kind to my 46 yr old knees, so that I can put some decent mileage on it. Smile

Also, thanks for nod to the Brooks saddles....I'm going to order a new Team Professional saddle for it next week, since the 25+ yr old Avocet Racing II from the old frame has seen better days.

..now to start searching for decent Normandy or Campy hubs, Mafac levers, etc...and in the meantime, just plain ride the bike.

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Fort Worth, Texas
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 5:35 pm Reply with quote
verktyg
Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 2814
Location: SF Bay Area
Gtane wrote:
Chas, so have you sold the Peugeot or is it now part of the collection for historical purposes only?!


I originally bought the bike to cannibalize some parts off of it for my late 60s TdF. Twisted Evil

The Brooks Pro was a beautiful russet brown color which disappeared soon afterward from handling the bike. It was a "barn bike" that had been in storage since the late 70s and was covered with dust and dirt. After a little cleaning it looked pretty good so I did a little more cleaning, gave it a minor tune-up and started riding it.

I figure that Peugeot used heavy gage Reynolds 531 tubing for the fork blades which makes the whole front of the bike stiff and harsh riding.

Gtane wrote:
I'm very much with you on the beater bike. I've done exactly the same thing. I usually end up really enjoying the completion of the project or getting the machine to sound condition only to never get it wet or dirty. Then the hunt is on for another beater, the real beater that will be ridden whenever, wherever, perhaps... ...and so the collection builds. Aaaaah!


Yes, I have 3 or 4 would be beaters so I know what you mean.... Confused

Chas.
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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 12:46 pm Reply with quote
Gtane
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 681
Location: UK
Quote:
Also, thanks for nod to the Brooks saddles....I'm going to order a new Team Professional saddle for it next week, since the 25+ yr old Avocet Racing II from the old frame has seen better days.


citternmaker, personally, the Brooks would be a great choice. These saddles mature with age so wonderfully, as with the rider. I reckon that the addition of the Brooks will transform your riding experience, in my experience.

I really like the description of the 12-18 as a corncob. It's the perfect description. I too doubt I could push that set-up on more than flat roads today. Hang on to it even if you do change as it's part of the original kit and goes with the bike.

Quote:
I figure that Peugeot used heavy gage Reynolds 531 tubing for the fork blades which makes the whole front of the bike stiff and harsh riding.


Thanks Chas for the 531 fork update. That's and interesting point. I feel the same would be true of machines with aluminium forks where carbon is now the norm. Aluminium forks gave a very harsh ride indeed. I sometimes wonder why aluminium is used for frames at all, other than costs, as many aluminium frames now have carbon stays as well as forks.

I find the whole beater thing (hack bike in the UK) too much to bear. For me, the simple love of doing up or restoring a machine outweighs the dirt and grim that it is destined to receive and actually will not. I also know that I tend to choose hack bikes that are actually too good to be hack bikes which compounds the issue. Why I cannot choose a really down trodden machine I really don't know. I can only hazard a guess, that I simply like whatever I restore just because it's a bike.

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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 6:32 am Reply with quote
citternmaker
Joined: 23 Jun 2007
Posts: 51
Gtane,

I'm really looking forward to giving the Brooks a long-term try. I had one in the 1980's but never took the time to break it in properly, and swapped it for the Avocet in 1982. I've felt ever since like I gave up on the Brooks it too soon. FWIW, I use a brand of cheap modern seat that works well for me on my modern bike, but I think it' s more a matter of luck there than design.

I wish I could say that the corncob/pinecone on my TdF was original. On my bike, both the hubset and freewheel had been replaced sometime in the mid-1970's with black 1st generation Dura-Ace components. They looked really cool back then, but now have a kind of "leisure-suit" look to them.

The close-ratio, small freewheels were fashionable (even with non-racers) in the US for a while in the 1970's -- a fad not unlike the current single-speed/fixed gear thing. They can be pretty handy on flat ground, but if you ride hills with them regularly, they're guaranteed to give you thighs like Hinault (and knees of jelly).

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Fort Worth, Texas
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 1:09 pm Reply with quote
Gtane
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 681
Location: UK
Ron, I hope you enjoy the Brooks again. The trick with these all leather saddles is to just keep going but they should be pretty comfortable from day one. After the initial formation, let's say, from the first rides, each time thereafter should be perfect with no further major changes to shape or form. My Brooks Pro is about 28 years old and definitely broken in! But with all saddles, it's ultimately what works for the rider.

I have used the closer ratios in my younger days as five and six speeds on a friction shift and boy didn't I have to work hard with that set-up but I enjoyed it. On a race machine, and on the flat, I like the feel that the close ratio gives with the slight change in inches for cadence continuity. Ten on the back today is far too easy. All the best with the change from the corncob/pinecone.

Thanks for the close ratio insight. That's interesting. We had similar over here and the key was to have a machine that was as lean and as elegant as possible.

Tim

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Corncobs are for chickens 
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 10:40 pm Reply with quote
verktyg
Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 2814
Location: SF Bay Area
I still have a few 13-18 & 13-21 corncobs that I used for flat time trials back in the day. The last few years I've noticed that most of the folks who go on our Classic Rendezvous rides are pushing at least 28T rear sprockets for the hills.

One rider had a 30T rear sprocket running on an old 1960s Cinelli with a Campy Nuovo Record rear dérailleur which is supposed to be limited to 26T max.

The big thing about saddle comfort is getting them properly adjusted to fit your anatomy.

Chas.
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Vintage Gitane for long distance rides? 
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