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Interclub or TDF or? 
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 11:03 pm Reply with quote
haudenasaunee
Joined: 16 Mar 2012
Posts: 8
Location: Port Moody British Columbia
I'm pretty sure this is a stickered up interclub. The seller insists it's a euro issue TDF. What do you guys think?

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Rear Drop outs 
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 6:39 am Reply with quote
smilingroadrunner
Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 278
Location: Salina, Ks.
With the adjustable rear drop-outs----this is probably correctly labeled as TdeF model. Seat post diameter would help identify tubing diameter at to Reynolds tubing.

I Like Steel !!!!
____________
C.A.
Salina, Ks.
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Pre- 1974 European Model TdF 
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 1:55 pm Reply with quote
verktyg
Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 2813
Location: SF Bay Area
The bike is a pre-1974 European model Tour de France, probably a 1972 with a lot of upgraded components.

Only the 3 main frame tubes were made of Reynolds 531, The forks and rear stays were standard Gitane tubing.

The pre-1974 US model Tour de France bikes were made of Reynolds 531 main tubes, forks and stays. The rear triangle was 1/2 chrome plated and almost all of them came with Simplex dropouts.


The European model TdFs came with either proprietary Simplex dropouts and derailleurs or proprietary Huret dropouts and derailleurs. Both brands were equally popular in France back then.

The OP's bike is one of those European models with the proprietary Huret dropouts with axle positioning screws.




Unless they were modified, only Huret derailleurs fit those dropouts. The travel limit stops were different from the de facto industry standard Campagnolo style derailleur hangers on the dropouts -see pictures below:

Pre-1975 Huret Dropout with the limit stop at 4:00 o'clock



Campagnolo Dropout with the limit stop at 7:00 o'clock



Pre-1975 Simplex without a derailleur limit stop on the hanger.




The Stronglight 93 cranks are the only original components. The wheels, derailleurs, brakes, pedals, bars and stem plus the saddle have been replaced. The headset is a standard Gitane style like used on Gran Sport and Interclub models not a Stronglight P3 that would have been used on a TdF.

The derailleur hanger on the Huret dropout was probably modified to work with the Campagnolo rear derailleur.

Orange was always my favorite color Gitane. Should be a nice riding bike with good components.


Last edited by verktyg on Mon May 23, 2016 2:30 am; edited 4 times in total

_________________
Chas.
SF Bay Area, CA USA
==============
1984 Criterium
1969 TdF
1971 TdF
1974 TdF
1984 TdF x 2 Bikes
1970 SC
1971 SC
1972 SC
1984 SC
1984 Team Pro
1985 Professional
1990s Team Replica
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 2:09 pm Reply with quote
haudenasaunee
Joined: 16 Mar 2012
Posts: 8
Location: Port Moody British Columbia
I did see the Huret drop outs. So this bike could have been produced with lower quality components, ie just 3 tubes 531, no chrome, Huret instead of Simplex Criterium and then labeled as a TDF just for the Hungarian market. At any rate I'm sure it is not worth anywhere near the asking price even if it did have all the original components except maybe to someone looking for a relatively rare TDF.
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Hungarian Bike Prices 
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 2:32 pm Reply with quote
verktyg
Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 2813
Location: SF Bay Area
haudenasaunee wrote:
I did see the Huret drop outs. So this bike could have been produced with lower quality components, ie just 3 tubes 531, no chrome, Huret instead of Simplex Criterium and then labeled as a TDF just for the Hungarian market. At any rate I'm sure it is not worth anywhere near the asking price even if it did have all the original components except maybe to someone looking for a relatively rare TDF.


I edited my post above with some additional information.

Those TdFs are not that rare in Europe. The bike was probably equipped with the standard TdF components from the early 70's.

There's a number of Hungarian sellers on eBay that specialize in French bikes and components. Looking at their prices over the last few years, they're pretty proud of their wares! Wink

_________________
Chas.
SF Bay Area, CA USA
==============
1984 Criterium
1969 TdF
1971 TdF
1974 TdF
1984 TdF x 2 Bikes
1970 SC
1971 SC
1972 SC
1984 SC
1984 Team Pro
1985 Professional
1990s Team Replica
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 2:39 pm Reply with quote
haudenasaunee
Joined: 16 Mar 2012
Posts: 8
Location: Port Moody British Columbia
I also saw what looks like Campy pedals threaded into the Stronglight crank arms. Either they are specially threaded campy pedal spindles or the arms have been modified. I'm not sure how that would be done.
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 2:50 pm Reply with quote
haudenasaunee
Joined: 16 Mar 2012
Posts: 8
Location: Port Moody British Columbia
Yes the orange is cool.
I have an orange SC nearing completion. I found it as just the frame, fork and headset just a little east of San Fran about a year ago.
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Thanks !! 
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 5:51 pm Reply with quote
smilingroadrunner
Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 278
Location: Salina, Ks.
Thanks Chas for your expertise & sharing the unique features of the European models. As noted, lots of components have been replaced, substituted on this frame-fork.

This site is such a great resource, Thanks to all members & Stephan for all the additional knowledge Gitane cycles and cycling in general that is shared thru the Gitane USA.com website Cool

I Like Steel !!!
___________

C.A.
Salina, KS
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 2:26 am Reply with quote
verktyg
Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 2813
Location: SF Bay Area
haudenasaunee wrote:
I also saw what looks like Campy pedals threaded into the Stronglight crank arms. Either they are specially threaded campy pedal spindles or the arms have been modified. I'm not sure how that would be done.


Retapping the pedal threads in the crank arms from M14x1.25mm theads to 9/16 - 20 TPI is easy with the correct pedal taps. They have a pilot/reamer in increase the hole size and help keep the tap running straight.




Campy made 'French" metric threaded pedals for the European market. Most Campy equipped French bikes from the 1970's had metric threaded BBs and headsets too.


Those pedals could be some other brand too like Zeus or even Japanese! There were a lot of Campy lookalike pedals on market.

_________________
Chas.
SF Bay Area, CA USA
==============
1984 Criterium
1969 TdF
1971 TdF
1974 TdF
1984 TdF x 2 Bikes
1970 SC
1971 SC
1972 SC
1984 SC
1984 Team Pro
1985 Professional
1990s Team Replica
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 12:03 pm Reply with quote
haudenasaunee
Joined: 16 Mar 2012
Posts: 8
Location: Port Moody British Columbia
I had considered going the other way at one point in order to use modern clipless pedals on my Stronglight equipped bikes, re threading the spindles to match the 14X1.25. My Supercorsa does have a Campy BB with French threads but the arms and pedal spindles are 9/16 20.

_________________
1971 SC Orange
1971 TDF White
1972 S/TDF Criterium Violet
1973 S/TDF Criterium Violet
1984 SC Blue
1987 Interclub Blue
2013 Citylink Black
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 12:00 am Reply with quote
verktyg
Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 2813
Location: SF Bay Area
haudenasaunee wrote:
I had considered going the other way at one point in order to use modern clipless pedals on my Stronglight equipped bikes, re threading the spindles to match the 14X1.25. My Supercorsa does have a Campy BB with French threads but the arms and pedal spindles are 9/16 20.


Cynic's soapbox time: Rolling Eyes

There's a widespread belief (fantasy) held by many who weren't there, that Campagnolo equipped bikes and components were common place!

The US bike boom of the early 1970's hit the European bicycle industry by surprise! There was also a smaller boom in France and the UK.

Many of the European component manufacturers were using machinery the predated WW2 some even older.

Worn out, obsolete machinery coupled with inefficient labor forces contributed to constant component shortages. Campagnolo was no different than the major French component manufacturers.

Prior to the end of the US bike boom in 1974 Campy components were always hard to come by.

Prior to 1975 Campagnolo equipped bikes amounted to far less than about 3% of all the European bikes imported into the US during those years.

Between 1970 and 74 there may have been more Campy equipped bikes sold in the US than in all of Europe. Reason? Not many folks could afford a pro bike...

In the US in the early 70's you could by a new VW beetle for $1900 USD and a low end Chevy for $2300 USD!

Someone spending $400+ for a bicycle? You must be out of your tree!!! Rolling Eyes

Also in the US, bicycles were still considered kid's toys. Most bikes were purchased for or by high school and college students. $70 to $125 was the price point fro those bikes.

After 1975 Campy components became more readily available because of increased manufacturing capacity and (temporary) reduced demand.


Getting back to haudenasaunee's comments about Campy pedals... Campy did make metric threaded pedals for the French market.

Also, there's a possibility that some French bikes came with British threaded cranks, pedals and hubs due to shortages of French threaded Campy and other better quality parts.


One other thing, during the bike boom FAD, "10 speed racing bike" was the buzz word. While most bike buyers in the US didn't have a clue about bike racing in Europe, most European bike makers produced a few Campy equipped bikes for display purposes.

Every good sized bike shop was supposed to have a Campy bike on the wall to help sell entry level bikes... Just like Chevy car dealers kept a Corvette on display! Wink


Gitane Super Corsa bike were among the cheapest Campagnolo equipped bikes available in the early 70's - Atala and Bottecchia bikes too.

You could buy these bikes wholesale for ~$300 wholesale plus ~$9.00 freight.

Many savvy bike shops bought these bikes to part out for the Campy gruppos which were costing ~$300 wholesale less brakes. You got a set of wheels plus tires, a saddle and a bar and stem. The carcass bare frame could be sold for $100.


Quite a few parted out Gitane Super Corsa frames where eventually built back up with Campy or whatever components. That's one reason there are so many Gitane SC frankenbikes!


Back to rethreading 9/16-20 pedals to M14x1.25 - "fa-gatta-bout-it!"

The pedal spindles are between 58Rc and 60Rc hard! Files are ~56Rc, steel taps and drill bits run about 60Rc to 62Rc.

They would need to be ground on a special thread grinding machine and the setup costs alone would be beyond prohibitive!

Dos that answer your questions? Very Happy

_________________
Chas.
SF Bay Area, CA USA
==============
1984 Criterium
1969 TdF
1971 TdF
1974 TdF
1984 TdF x 2 Bikes
1970 SC
1971 SC
1972 SC
1984 SC
1984 Team Pro
1985 Professional
1990s Team Replica
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Interclub or TDF or? 
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