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Need help with age guess on this TDF 
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 7:36 pm Reply with quote
jakenok
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 20
Location: Kansas
Getting this in soon and looking forward to a great winter project. I'm no expert at all, but looking at the sticky on TDF id and other posts, I'm guessing 71? Any feedback is appreciated. Not sure as how I'll go with her, just want a great rider.












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Late 1969 to early 1971 TdF 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 2:52 pm Reply with quote
verktyg
Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 2813
Location: SF Bay Area
The frame is a late 1969 to early 1971 Gitane Tour de France specially built by Gitane built for the US importer Mel Pinto Imports.


I've written a lot of messages about determining the age of a TdF

Read through my messages in this thread, especially:

The Definitive Gitane Tour de France: Late 1960s to 1974

http://www.gitaneusa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2636

Here's another list of components:

List of original components found on 1968-74 Gitane Foil Decal Tour de France US model 585 bikes:

Stronglight 93 cranks 52/42T - Sugino Mighty Competition Cranks 52/42T on some 1973-74 bikes

Lyotard 460d alloy pedals

Stronglight P3 Headset

Simplex Criterium dérailleurs with chrome plated or polished aluminum down tube shift levers

Mafac Dural Forge, Racer or Competition brakes

Pivo alloy bar and stem - recessed Allen head expander bolt on some 1973-74 stems

Chrome plated steel tubing seatpost

Freccia D'Oro plastic saddle (meaning Golden Arrow)

Normandy high flange Luxe Competition QR hubs - Campagnolo Nuovo Tipo high flange QR hubs after 1971

36H tubular rims - usually Mavic brand - quality level varied.

cheap sewup tires with tube of Tubasti rim cement or Jantex rim tape

14-24 or 14-26 Atom or Normandy 5 speed freewheel

Toeclips and toestraps usually Cristophe S. M or L appropriate to frame size and white toestraps

down tubes mounted pump on some bikes - quality varied


Frames:

Reynolds 531 tubing with the 3 main tubes butted (head tubes and steerers where cheap non Reynolds material)

Prugnat Type S long point lugs - Bocama Professional medium point lugs after 1972

Nervex Professional fork crowns - Nervex DuBois fork crowns after 1972 with occasional flat top Wagner crowns before 1972

Simplex dropouts in at least 4 variations including 1 style without a derailleur hanger - rarely Campagnolo 1010 dropouts

1/2 chrome plated rear stays, fork blades and fork crown - rare European versions with no chrome or only the forks chromed

Willow leaf shaped brazed on seat stay caps - swaged seat stay tops after 1971

bridge for brake cable stop brazed on near top of seat stays - before 1972


During this era Gitane measured frame sizes from the center of the bottom bracket to the top of the seat tube which was approximately where the seat tube and top tube intersected.

TdFs were available in the following frame sizes C to T:

50cm, 54cm, 57cm, 60cm, 62cm and 64cm nominal

This worked out to approximately 19 1/2", 21 1/2", 22 1/2", 23 1/2", 24 1/2" & 25 1/2" (very nominal)

There were occasional odd ball size frames, for example I have a 1974 Foil Decals bike with about a 61cm frame - 24"!


Gitane adopted the classic Mylar Foil Decals about 1968. According to this 1968 price list from Mel Pinto Imports, the US Gitane importer/distributor in those days, Foil Decal TdFs may not have been available in the US until February, 1969.



A few early Foil Decal TdFs had Mylar silver foil inlays in the head tube area behind the Gitane head tube badge decal.

Note, some European TdFs came with Huret Alvit or Svelto derailleurs with Huret dropouts. Also, only the 3 main tubes were butted Reynolds 531 tubing on the European models. The forks and stays were less expensive tubing. Only the forks were chrome plated on those bikes. The rear triangle was painted.


The above items are guesstimates based on my experiences and research. Catalog specifications were subject to change on a whim or due to availability and shortage issues during the US Bike Boom era.

The 1970 Gitane US catalog was used until early 1974.

http://www.gitaneusa.com/images/catalog/1970_cover.jpg

_________________
Chas.
SF Bay Area, CA USA
==============
1984 Criterium
1969 TdF
1971 TdF
1974 TdF
1984 TdF x 2 Bikes
1970 SC
1971 SC
1972 SC
1984 SC
1984 Team Pro
1985 Professional
1990s Team Replica
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 4:58 pm Reply with quote
jakenok
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 20
Location: Kansas
Thank you very much. 😀
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Rear Drop out modification 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:08 pm Reply with quote
smilingroadrunner
Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 278
Location: Salina, Ks.
Welcome to the site !!! Lots of great folks here !!!

That's a BIG frame, just an observation but the rear Simplex derailleur hanger appears to have been modified to accept more recent Suntour, Shimano, or Campy derailleur mounting bolts.

Here is some additional information provided by Chas on how the hanger may be modified :

https://www.flickr.com/photos/28267220@N05/4640777339/

The white frames are great for necessary paint touch up's if needed---there is a great resource for reproduction foil decal sets from Greg at Cyclomondo.com.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Early-Gitane-FOIL-decal-sets-complete-3-choices-/301690852879?hash=item463e2d160f

Should make a great project as you have noted.

Welcome to the home of Obsessive / Compulsive Gitane Owners

I Like Steel !!!!
________________

C.A.
Salina Ks

'70 TdeF
'71 Interclub
'72 TdeF X 2
'72 Interclub X 2
'72--(possibly '73) Super Corsa
'86 Performance (my winter project---but I've been trying to get at it for the last 3 years)
'87 Victoire
2--Super Corsa frames (again early probably '71--'73) for future projects
& hopefully an '85 Professionel in the near future
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Re: Rear Drop out modification 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:48 pm Reply with quote
jakenok
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 20
Location: Kansas
smilingroadrunner wrote:
Welcome to the site !!! Lots of great folks here !!!

That's a BIG frame, just an observation but the rear Simplex derailleur hanger appears to have been modified to accept more recent Suntour, Shimano, or Campy derailleur mounting bolts.

Here is some additional information provided by Chas on how the hanger may be modified :

https://www.flickr.com/photos/28267220@N05/4640777339/

The white frames are great for necessary paint touch up's if needed---there is a great resource for reproduction foil decal sets from Greg at Cyclomondo.com.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Early-Gitane-FOIL-decal-sets-complete-3-choices-/301690852879?hash=item463e2d160f

Should make a great project as you have noted.

Welcome to the home of Obsessive / Compulsive Gitane Owners

I Like Steel !!!!
________________

C.A.
Salina Ks

'70 TdeF
'71 Interclub
'72 TdeF X 2
'72 Interclub X 2
'72--(possibly '73) Super Corsa
'86 Performance (my winter project---but I've been trying to get at it for the last 3 years)
'87 Victoire
2--Super Corsa frames (again early probably '71--'73) for future projects
& hopefully an '85 Professionel in the near future


Yes, the guy I bought it from mentioned the previous to him mod to the hangar. I'll check that link out. She's a tall gal, but at 6'4", that works for me...
I see you're in Salina: I'm just down the road, in Wichita.

Steel is real! 😀
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:12 pm Reply with quote
jakenok
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 20
Location: Kansas
Well, it was fun in Wichita today! Bike frame came in, with quite a few goodies. I got a Fiamme Red Label back rim, laced to a Normandy Competition hub. It has a Regina Super Corse Oro 14-22 teeth. Also got one MAFAC Racer brake complete and a bag of cable guides and other bits. And, a cool Sugino SP-KD seat post.

Last week, I picked up a later (past death stem) ATAX stem and a set of Guidons Phillipe Franco Italia D352 bars.

Frame is nice and straight. I'll just touch up the spots and leave the patina.

Last surprise was a vintage 1974 bike license! Think I'll frame it...

Frame has a bike shop sticker from Big Wheel, LTD, Bicycle Specialists, from 310 Holly street in Denver Colorado. Did a little searching on line and that shop was a popular place where budding racers used to go. Just adds a bit to the cool factor, a bit of history.



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Re: Rear Drop out modification 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 4:36 pm Reply with quote
verktyg
Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 2813
Location: SF Bay Area
smilingroadrunner wrote:
...The white frames are great for necessary paint touch up's if needejust an observation but the rear Simplex derailleur hanger appears to have been modified to accept more recent Suntour, Shimano, or Campy derailleur mounting bolts.

Here is some additional information provided by Chas on how the hanger may be modified :

https://www.flickr.com/photos/28267220@N05/4640777339/

C.A.
Salina Ks


Hello C.A. long time no see... Happy New Year.

Modifying Simplex dropouts to take Campy or Suntour derailleurs was acceptable back in the early 70's. Today many folks frown on the practice (purists). Wink

There are a lot of good Simplex derailleurs available like the Super LJ series and the SX series (SX410 & SX610) that will bolt right on with no modification plus they will perform better that the old Campy models.

_________________
Chas.
SF Bay Area, CA USA
==============
1984 Criterium
1969 TdF
1971 TdF
1974 TdF
1984 TdF x 2 Bikes
1970 SC
1971 SC
1972 SC
1984 SC
1984 Team Pro
1985 Professional
1990s Team Replica
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 6:07 pm Reply with quote
jakenok
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 20
Location: Kansas
I just picked up another bike, pics tomorrow that may be a TDF that has early campy on it. The logo on the steerer tube is in my other post about mystery bike. It's got a lot of characteristics, but unsure if it was repainted or just a different brand.
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Need help with age guess on this TDF 
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