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Spindle replacement 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:20 pm Reply with quote
mountaindave
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 74
Location: Flathead Valley, MT
OK, let me see if I can explain this properly.

I used the lovely BB cup extraction tool, as described by Sheldon Brown, to remove the fixed cup on my ~'73 TdF. Popped right out. The BB had been packed once in 1973, and again in ~1992, the second time with Philwood grease (which looked almost as good as new - I'll never use anything else again). So the cups and spindle were in nearly perfect shape.

Why replace the spindle? I am attempting to triplize the bike with a custom triplizer ring made by Jon Vara to fit the Stronglight crank. It's for my wife so she can climb some very steep hills. The 52-48 rings just aren't doing it for her. Nice close ratios for the flats, not so good in the mountains.

The spindle is 118mm long and asymmetrical. If I follow Sheldon Brown's charts correctly, I have a 3P spindle: 32mm end length on the left, 35mm on the right. Chainline was perfect at 43.5mm.

To triplize this I believe I need to move the crank out ~2.5mm or so. If this is correct, then I need to get a 3S spindle (32mm end length on the left, 37.5 on the right). The thing is, all the 3S spindles I see listed are 34mm on the left and 37.4 on the right. I probably won't notice the 2mm difference on the left, will I?

I can find cheap a SunLite axle for $7. Do I need to worry about taper or will this just drop in and work? I don't really want to go the Velo Orange sealed BB route if I don't have to - I'd like to preserve the original BB as much as possible. Plus, I'd have a hard time putting anything non-French in there - sealed BB's just don't have the same class as cups do.

Thanks for any help,
David
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Re: Spindle replacement 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:37 pm Reply with quote
verktyg
Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 2814
Location: SF Bay Area
mountaindave wrote:

The spindle is 118mm long and asymmetrical. If I follow Sheldon Brown's charts correctly, I have a 3P spindle: 32mm end length on the left, 35mm on the right. Chainline was perfect at 43.5mm.

To triplize this I believe I need to move the crank out ~2.5mm or so. If this is correct, then I need to get a 3S spindle (32mm end length on the left, 37.5 on the right). The thing is, all the 3S spindles I see listed are 34mm on the left and 37.4 on the right. I probably won't notice the 2mm difference on the left, will I?

I can find cheap a SunLite axle for $7. Do I need to worry about taper or will this just drop in and work?

David


Dave,

Forget about all that CRAP!

All of those 3S, 3P and so on were junk case hardened spindles made for use with low end "melt forged" (euphemism for cast aluminum) cranks with the spiders swagged onto the crank arms.

That advise was originally published in Sutherland's Handbook For Bicycle Mechanics in the 70s for bike shops that didn't have access to the correct replacement spindles (read lawn mower repair shops, hardware stores, Schwinn dealers and so on).

A bike shop that knew what they were doing could get the correct spindle or a quality one that would work.


Back to your issue, the easy solution: get a Stronglight 123mm spindle or a TA 377 spindle. They're made for triples and either one will work properly with your cups - that's all you have to change...

BTW, use loose Grade 25 Chrome Steel 1/4" balls - 11 per side. Sheldon has some tricks on how to assemble them. Wink

Chainline obsession was a Brit affectation back in the days when they were using stiff 1/8" wide chains on 1 and 3 speed bikes!

Everyone was OCD concerned about friction in an exposed chain drive. Air resistance is a far bigger issue that any minimal amount of friction in the drive train!

Modern bushingless chains have a lot of lateral flexibility - they work fine on 10 and 11 speed cassettes with triple chainrings.

Remember, if it fit's it works!

Please read my messages #8 and #10 in this thread in Bike Forums:

http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/993064-campy-crankset-compatibility-t-motobecane.html

Old and crotchety retro grouch! Evil or Very Mad

_________________
Chas.
SF Bay Area, CA USA
==============
1984 Criterium
1969 TdF
1971 TdF
1974 TdF
1984 TdF x 2 Bikes
1970 SC
1971 SC
1972 SC
1984 SC
1984 Team Pro
1985 Professional
1990s Team Replica
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:59 pm Reply with quote
mountaindave
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 74
Location: Flathead Valley, MT
Thanks! Also found this thread on period correct triples when you suggested those axles. Google is still only so good, can't read my mind... yet.

eBay? LBS?
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:39 am Reply with quote
verktyg
Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 2814
Location: SF Bay Area
mountaindave wrote:
Google is still only so good, can't read my mind... yet.




I'm seeing something... I'm seeing something... Let me hold your wallet and it will become clearer... Laughing Laughing Laughing

Either a Stronglight 99 or TA Cyclotouriste triple will solve your problem. Also, look for a Stronglight 49 with TA triple chainrings. All you'll need then is a longer spindle.

It's a better solution than a triplizer kluge...

_________________
Chas.
SF Bay Area, CA USA
==============
1984 Criterium
1969 TdF
1971 TdF
1974 TdF
1984 TdF x 2 Bikes
1970 SC
1971 SC
1972 SC
1984 SC
1984 Team Pro
1985 Professional
1990s Team Replica
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:43 pm Reply with quote
mountaindave
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 74
Location: Flathead Valley, MT
Well, I have the triplizer kludge already, just need the spindle now... Not much showing up on the fleabay. Some NOS stuff on Bikeville that's ridiculous expensive. Need to check the LBS's...
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local bike shop 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:14 pm Reply with quote
gman309905
Joined: 23 Dec 2012
Posts: 63
Location: Pittsburgh PA.
Don't know if you care to try an out of state shop, but we have a bicycle shop here in Pittsburgh called Kraynicks. The owners name is Jerry. He runs the place out of a three story residence that is literally packed to the rafters with vintage bike parts, mostly NOS. If he does not have the part, nobody will.
Kraynick's Bike Shop Inc
5003 Penn Ave
Pittsburgh, PA 15224
(412) 361-0888
Google Kraynicks bike shop if you want more info or give Jerry a call, He's a really good guy and I'm sure he would arrange shipping, and his prices are awesome cheap, sold me a set of sun mistral 700c aluminum rims, NOS for ten bucks a piece
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:32 pm Reply with quote
mountaindave
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 74
Location: Flathead Valley, MT
Thanks for the tip. I'll keep him in mind if I can't find it locally.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:09 pm Reply with quote
mountaindave
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 74
Location: Flathead Valley, MT
OK, it turns out after all of my recent searching I may have had the right option in my garage all along. I bought a crashed Peugeot UO8? this summer for the Simplex derailleur to replace the Shimano (horrors!) someone stuck on my '70 TdF (likely to replace a broken plastic Simplex RD). I stripped the Peugeot and pulled out a Nervar spindle. Turns out it is 126mm. I only need a 123mm spindle, but what the heck? Grant Peterson would shiver at the thought of increasing my Q-factor by so much, but I can't think of a better option (for no extra $$$). It ain't perfect (one pit), but it would certainly help justify the $50 I dropped on the POS Peugeot. I did get a nice shop stool out of the rear triangle...
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:09 am Reply with quote
scozim
Joined: 26 Sep 2008
Posts: 629
Location: Ellensburg, WA
It's always nice to find that you had an option all along. Although I usually forward it up with a good slap to the forehead.

_________________
1984 Gitane Sprint
1984 Gitane Tour de France
mid-1970's Gitane Olympic
Plus many more
http://eburgcycling.blogspot.com
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:37 am Reply with quote
mountaindave
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 74
Location: Flathead Valley, MT
I know what you mean. Fortunately this was more of an "ah ha!" moment. Spending a bunch of time and money on a new spindle, then discovering that I had what I needed all along would most certainly have required a slap to the forhead... with a 2x4.
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Spindle replacement 
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