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trials guy

Hi - I'm wondering how many Gitane owners are still riding on tubular tires? Many, if not most, of the TDF's and Super Corsas sold in the US seemed to come set up with tubulars. I've always swapped a set of clincher wheels onto the Gitanes I've owned.
My recent meeting with "Jay the man" caused me to think about trying out sew-ups for the first time. They always seemed like a fussy hassle, but my conversation with Jay (who is still riding sew-ups on his nice TDF) made me reconsider... Do people have tips on how best to mount them, what is a good budget priced tire, etc...? Thanks!

smilingroadrunner

Almost Merry Christmas---at least a white one here in the mid-west. We received a much needed shot of moisture, about 12-13 " last evening. I spent the morning digging out my parents and my mother in-laws' driveways.

I have extra-"Clincher" wheelsets for my '72 Interclub, the '74 Paramount, and my usual ride the '87 Victoire. I have the items to build up the Tubular and Clincher wheelsets for the '86 Performance which I hope to work on this winter. And plan on extra - wheelsets for the future Super Corsa.

My '70 TdeF is set up with sew ups only at this time ( but I can use the clincher set ups from either the Interclub and/or Paramount if I desired ) I rode on tubulars exclusively from '71 thru about 2007 when I acquired my "Gitane Obsessive -Compulsive Disorder"

I've always purchased "less expensive" certainly less expensive in the '70s and 80s than by todays pricing. In the early years from my LBS --in the last 10-25 yrs from Bike Nashbar and/or Performance Bike. Vittoria Rally Tubulars. and usually using Continental cement ----although years ago I used Tubasti.

For the most part they usually run fairly True, The "Rally" tubulars sometimes seem to have a "bump" associated in the valve stem area. I try to be careful - watchful of the road surface. I like the "feel". Most are mounted on Mavic GP-4 rims--the '70 TdeF are Champion du Monde rims and Campagnolo "Victory Chrono" rims on the Paramount. Most of the clinchers are mounted on Mavic MA 40 rims. Chas gave me a tip about the "Tufo" product "Tufo Extreme" liquid sealant that I carry along with a pre-glued spare. The Tufo product has saved my backside many times now in the last 3 years. The biggest complaint that I have about my tubulars (besides obvious flatting) is a tendency for the rim tape to pull back from the casing threads. I recall Chas posting an image once upon a time of a Liquid Latex product that I thought may be an option to pre-treat before mounting or re-treat after usage, the tubular sidewalls to see if it would delay that tape - casing separation issue. Sorry, I cannot remember the name of the Latex product he recommended. The Tufo product is a great item--It does have a limited life as it will set up in the squeeze bottle--becoming useless. But it will often times repair even fairly large cuts. (my front tire on the '70 TdeF is still in usage after 3 small punctures that I treated with Tufo Extreme They make a "regular liquid sealant" that can be placed in the sew-up. I have no experience with that product---Probably would be a necessary if I was Cyclo-crossing.

For most of my longer rides I place the clinchers wheelsets on for convenience if I flat. Rain and tubular casing rim tape are not very compatible in my experience--seemingly speeding up the separation of the rim tape from the casing sidewall. Seems like I saw a post in a Q&A column by Leonard Zinn about Cyclocross racers using "Aquaseal" as a preservative for their cyclocross tubulars.

I have to tell you that this past September I built up a set of Campy Record low-flange hubs with the newer Mavic "Open pro" rims and some Vittoria Open Corsa Evo SC clincher road tires. I have been substituting this wheelset for the MA-40 and Nashbar Duro set on my '87 Victoire. I really was impressed at the difference in Ride and I seemed to average about 1-2mph faster ride times with the new wheelset. (The rear wheel on the old MA 40 set has a flat spot that over the last 2-3 years I and my LBS mechanic just could not work around--really an annoying Bump on the Butt). The Vittoria Corsa SC probably will not have the milage that the heavier wire Duro tires have given. BUT so far the commitment to purchasing the more expensive clinchers has been positive.

I Like Steel !!!
_________________
C.A.
Salina Ks.

smilingroadrunner

Sorry fellows, I was rambling last night--and didn't really answer the questions from Trials Guy.

Yes, I ride both Clinchers, and Tubulars, But I still prefer the ride "feel" of the sew-ups.

They can be somewhat of a chore. I prep and remove any old adhesive from my rims with 3M General Purpose Adhesive Cleaner (a Naptha, Xylene, Ethylbenzene mixture) that can be found at Automotive paint suppy, Part # 051135, O8984. I have found that it doesn't remove the hardened "Red" --Clement cements; but with some applications typically will soften and facilitate removal of most other adhesives. It also will dissolve rim decal cements so be careful. Use it outdoors--it has high volatility and is flammable ---so be careful.

I place my tubulars on the rim for a day or more (if time allows) and pump them up . This seems to "stretch" the casings somewhat to help in fitting to the rim later. (Actually I have several new sew-ups on rims in the shop so one or more are always available if I need to replace a flatted in a short time interval.)

I place a coating (at the current time Continental cements--as that seems to be what is available at my local bike shop, and also is available from Nashbar and/or Performance) of cement on the partially inflated sew-up--enough that the tire "rolls or twists to allow easier access to the rim tape. I try to be neat and cautious to create a width of adhesive on the cotton rim tape that approximates the "footprint" that the rim tape will seat against the rim. (typically this leaves about 2-3mm of clean rim tape that approximates the casing sidewall) The cotton tape seems to absorb this first layer of cement---I usually allow this to sit overnight--- or if I'm in a hurry to mount a tire, maybe an hour.

I used to put a small amount of adhesive on my rims, again trying to be very neat and avoiding excess around the spoke nipple---but now ---as an "Old Fart" I don't want to work that hard to pull a flatted tubular from the rim and usually the rim clean up with above mentioned adhesive is quicker. In my younger days I didn't want to risk rolling a sew up in Criteriums---but my Kamikaze days of racing in the '70s and early '80s are memories.

The next day I place a 2nd layer of cement on the rim tape ---again trying to be neat and "stay within the lines". This 2nd layer will not be absorbed into the rim tape to the same degree as the first layer. Giving it 10-30 min to dry to a "Tacky" feel.

Mounting: this is when the pre-stretching can help --although this can still be messy. Starting at the valve stem and seating the rim tape into the rim and work with both hands to stretch and seat the sew up working around to the opposite side of the rim. Stretching the casing to help as you reach the opposite side of the valve stem. (It can be a messy affair but better to get adhesive on the finger tips and trying not to get it on the rim brake surfaces as you work the casing into position). I will inflate a few pounds --just enough to create somewhat the casing profile--and will work around the rim to center and align the sew up. Lifting, moving, twisting as needed --trying to equalize the tension around the whole rim, making sure the valve stem is straight. I will pump the sew up to maybe 30-40 psi and check the alignment while spinning the rim. Basically making adjustment if needed until I think I'm as close to tread alignment that I'm going to get. I will pump up to riding pressure 90-105 psi and deflate 2-or 3 time checking the tread alignment. If satisfied I'll pump it up to 110-120 psi and roll it on the floor--pushing the tire casing tape onto the rim with most of my upper body weight. Set it aside until the next day, then it goes to work again.

I should qualify the use of the above adhesive remover is for METAL rims, I have no experience with carbon-fiber disks or rims BUT the 3m product possibly would not be healthy for the resin compound in these type rims.

I've had sew ups last for 1.5--2K miles and I've flatted a brand new mounting less that a 1/4 mile from my front door. I like the vintage look, but mostly the feel of the ride. To a new user of tubulars the whole process may seem an esoteric adventure, if not a lot of work. But as most things practice and repetition improves the mounting process.

I Like Steel !!!!
___________________
C.A.
Salina, Ks.

'70 TdeF
'71 Interclub
'72 Interclub X 2
'72 TdeF
'73 TdeF
'72-'73 Super Corsa in the wings
'86 Performance
'87 Victoire

gman309905

I've never ridden on tubulars, If it's that much work just to change a tire I'm stickin with clinchers

smilingroadrunner

Repairs ??? I won't even begin to describe that "belly surgery"

I have done so years ago, but not a great result in casing closure and replacement of the rim tape.

Chas had mentioned in a previous post a company in believe in Florida that will replace the inner tube and re-sew - re-tape tubular casing. The fee seemed to be in the range of less expensive new training tubulars. Certainly if I was racing on $ 100+ quality tubulars, and developed an expensive sound casing with a wound I would consider that resource.

I utilize the entrance level Vittoria " Rally " tubulars, and if the Tufo product fails to seal the leak, I consider it a lost cause and remount a new tire.

Lots of Product Brands to chose from, Vittoria, Continental, Tufo, to name a few---years ago even my LBS had a relabeled "Schwinn" sew up. In my early days of racing I had some Clement 'silk" casings on my Paramount. The original wheelset of my son's '72 Interclub have a set of Tubulars that are almost brand new (the previous owner had them placed and then the bike was hung in his basement until I received it as a X-mas gift 3 years ago) with very little road milage---they are fully functional with suprising little cracking of the casing tread compound after possibly 30-33 yrs.

And, you are correct Gman, Clinchers are less challenging to repair on the road, or at home.

Merry Christmas !!!
Thanks Stephan for this great forum.

I Like Steel !!!
__________________
C.A.
On a Wintery Christmas eve morning in Kansas

sandranian · Site Admin

Love the "feel" of tubulars. Don't ride on them much though. Too much of a hassle.

verktyg

I still ride sewups but it depends on where I'm going to ride. I avoid areas where I know there are lots of goat heads.

I've been using Servizio Corsa tires from Yellow Jersey on a number of bikes - 3 for $50 bucks!

http://www.yellowjersey.org/tt.html

They're made from the same pattern as a number of different makes of Italian tires and come from Thailand (like most of the Italian tires).

Usually 2 out of 3 of these tires are round and true. I put the bad ones on the rear.

I also have a bunch of used tires that came on wheels and bikes that I acquired. They had/have problems with the rim tape coming off of the casings.

I've sent some of the better ones to Tire Alert in Florida to have them repaired. They did a good job and I've been using them on several bikes.

http://www.tirealert.com/tirealert/Welcome.html

I use Tufo Extreme tire mounting tape or the new Tufo tire mounting tape. They're mess free and take about 5-10 minutes to mount a tubular tire on a rim.

I also use yellow label Tufo Tire Sealant. It can protect against flats or seal them when they occur. Tufo claims to be able to seal cuts up to 3mm in the treads but 1mm to 2mm is pushing it. Tufo sealant works best on small punctures like goat head thorns and small glass or stone cuts.

Forget about sidewall cuts and I haven't had any success using the Tufo sealant in clinchers.

I carry Tufo Sealant in my tool kit on all of my bikes equipped with sewups.

scozim

I didn't run tubulars for years. I thought they were too much of a hassle as others have stated. Reality is they really aren't that bad. Installing sounds a lot worse than it is.

Three years ago I was given a load of laced, Mavic GP-4 and GL330 rims. There was also a Mavic GEL280 included. Most had Campagnolo, Mavic or Suntour Superbe hubs. I now had more tubular rims than clincher so I relegated the clinchers to only a couple of bikes and for winter riding when we have more sand and gravel on the road which means more punctures.

Both my Gitanes have tubulars on them. The Sprint is one of my winter bikes so it's decked out with tubulars from the beginning of May through October. I will periodically switch in an 8 spd lightweight clincher wheelset from my titanium ride if I'm going on a 100 mile or longer ride. The tires that are still hanging on (they're old) are Vittoria Corsa CX's. They are one heck of a ride and, even at 120 psi, I'll go over a bump and have to look down to see if my rear tire is going low as they just absorb the bumps.

The Tour de France is wearing a Continental Sprinter (probably my favorite tubular) up front and a high pressure Bontrager on the rear. The Bontrager says it will take 175psi. I've only gone as high as 135 on a hill climb race - definitely made for a little bumpier ride on the way down.

I also run tubulars on my fender bike - 81 Trek 510 - and a late 60's Peugeot PL8.

Both of those bikes get the Yellow Jersey Servizio Corsa tubular treatment. I usually buy them in groups of 6 which equals $112 shipped or roughly $18 a tire. You sometimes get what you pay for but, in the end, these tires are a decent ride as long as you keep them no higher than 110psi. I have had a couple of them separate on the sidewall and had a couple of punctures that my clinchers also would have suffered (really sharp pieces of winter gravel).

Tubulars have a great feel and I'm glad I made the switch.

mountaindave

Scozim, what did you use for the Cino?