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New Frankenbike project 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:22 pm Reply with quote
smilingroadrunner
Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 271
Location: Salina, Ks.
First, my apology to Gitane15 as I kind of stole your thread 2 weeks ago.

In 2011 I purchased a Gitane frameset-fork assuming it was as noted on E-bay as a S.C. with an obvious repaint that had been parted out of all the Campy and/or components. I briefly inspected the bike to see that it had not been damaged in shipping. BUT This SuperCorsa frameset & fork have sat quietly in the basement the last 6 years. I had several bike-touring campouts with the young men in our Scout troop this year. It got me thinking about building a touring bike from this frameset.




My intent to set this up as a possible Triple touring bike, BUT as I've started to strip the frame (which seems suspiciously heavy for Reynolds frameset) it became obvious that possibly this is a different replacement fork. A 60 cm frameset with no sign of Gitane Red ---but a fork that did have original Red finish.















This combination currently has a stack height of 38mm
Mad so I have no idea what kind of headset it had been using but obvious not the Campy that one would expect on a SuperCorsa.

As it will be somewhat of a Frankenbike my options may be ??? : Possibly use one of my Stronglight P3 headsets and extra spacer - spacers. Possibly a Stronglight A9 French Thread headset (probably most likely if I can track one down and assuming it will fit the 26.4mm crown I.D. dimension). Originally I was planning to use new replacement Velo Orange bottom bracket and VO headset (but the 41mm headset stack height isn't going to work now Evil or Very Mad )
I don't want to try to gain the 3mm difference by machining the headtube and crown race seat (my LBS has some VAR shop tools for facing the headtube but not the correct tool size for modification of the crown height and I.D. size).

Anyhow, for the time being I plan to finish completing paint removal and check into having the chrome work evaluated for possible replating-polish


I am, "Getting Old and Grey"

BUT

" I Still Like Steel "
___________________

C.A.
Salina, KS

P.S.

Lofter, Don if your out there besides Facebook, what paint did you use on the "87 Professionel that you posted yesterday?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:03 am Reply with quote
scozim
Joined: 26 Sep 2008
Posts: 620
Location: Ellensburg, WA
Do you have close ups of the other lugs on the bike? Does it appear to be a Reynolds frame but cro-mo fork?

Classic bikes can be a lot of fun but the challenges on some of these can also be frustrating. I've used the VO bottom brackets on three bikes with a lot of luck but with them being symmetrical it has been a little tougher to determine exactly what length is appropriate for a good chain line. I thought I had it figured out on one and then the inner chain ring ended up touching the chain stay and I had to go a different route.

My touring bike right now is a drop bar conversion late 90's Peugeot hybrid. It's a little heavier but came with cantilever brakes which I wanted. And, it rides straight and is solid on downhills.

Would this bike be better served as more of an errand/yard sale bike? Reading between the lines makes me wonder if you are second guessing making it a touring rig.

_________________
1984 Gitane Sprint
1984 Gitane Tour de France
mid-1970's Gitane Olympic
Plus many more
http://eburgcycling.blogspot.com
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:08 am Reply with quote
smilingroadrunner
Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 271
Location: Salina, Ks.
G'day, thanks Scott ( I will admit I am giving some thought to just purchasing a Bike Nashbar touring bike that is on sale right now. Modern components, the cantilevers, and the correct frame mounting hardware for pannier racks). And for no more serious than I probably will be as far as long distance touring, this bike would serve the purpose.

I will get some additional images on later today.

C.A.
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1972-73 Super Corsa 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:10 am Reply with quote
verktyg
Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 2810
Location: SF Bay Area
Hi guys,

CA you have a late 1971 early 1972 Super Corsa frame. Gitane used Nervex Professional crowns on the Super Corsa and Tour de France models until ~1972.

Until the early 1980's most European production bikes used heavier gage Reynolds 531 tubing.

The butted ends of the main tubes had a 1mm wall thickness with .7mm in the thinner sections.

That was the same dimensions as heavy gage Columbus SP tubing.

The thicker tubes allowed for the employment of less skilled people because there was less of a chance of damaging the tubing from over heating.

A frame that size is going to feel a little heavy but it probably weighs under 7 lbs bare.

Super Vitus 971 and Columbus SL tubing was .9mm x .6mm wall thickness. Reynolds made 531 tubing with those dimensions too that Gitane occasionally used on some special models.

Super Vitus 980 had .8mm x .5mm wall thicknesses on the main tubes. Super Vitus 983 was slightly heavier.

A frame that size with a rider over ~175 Lbs. is going to have a smooth ride even with 1.5mm to 2mm thick gas pipe tubing. ie the Interclub and Gran Sport models.

As far as ride quality goes, 57cm and smaller size frames benefit greatly from thinner tubing.

_________________
Chas.
SF Bay Area, CA USA
==============
1984 Criterium
1969 TdF
1971 TdF
1974 TdF
1984 TdF x 2 Bikes
1970 SC
1971 SC
1972 SC
1984 SC
1984 Team Pro
1985 Professional
1990s Team Replica
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some of the lug work 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:17 pm Reply with quote
smilingroadrunner
Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 271
Location: Salina, Ks.
Thanks Chas, Scott, here are some images of the lug work.



























I'm going to probably try to score a Stronglight A9 headset, although not period correct for this early '70 S.C. as a way to deal with the 38mm stack height. If I have to use the Stronglight P3 --I'll probably throw the spacer and/or brake cable holder into the Stack to make up for the excess.
I wish I knew the story behind this 38 mm instead of the 41 mm.
Confused

The frame alignment appears good when we checked it out at my LBS last week. I don't see any evidence in the existing frame tubing of damage around the head tube or elsewhere. It just makes me wonder if the correct (or original ) fork had been replaced due to damage at some point.

So I'm not sure at this point how this frameset will evolve in my build plans.

I do have another S.C. frameset that again I purchased back in 2011 that has been repainted (although sadly a lot of the original chrome socks had been covered and they had placed water bottle mounting points, and brazed additional cable guides as part of the custom paint job.) This frame does have a couple dings in the seat tube, nice chrome, just too bad they made the additions and customized the paint over the chrome socks. It really is a nice paint job !!
Mad












Enough rambling for tonight

I Like Steel !!!!
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C.A.
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Re: some of the lug work 
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:55 am Reply with quote
verktyg
Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 2810
Location: SF Bay Area
smilingroadrunner wrote:
Thanks Chas, Scott, here are some images of the lug work.


Lug work on those early 70's Super Corsa and Tour de France frames wasn't pretty but it was well done.


smilingroadrunner wrote:
I'm going to probably try to score a Stronglight A9 headset, although not period correct for this early '70 S.C. as a way to deal with the 38mm stack height. If I have to use the Stronglight P3 --I'll probably throw the spacer and/or brake cable holder into the Stack to make up for the excess.
I wish I knew the story behind this 38 mm instead of the 41 mm.
Confused


Bingo! It's probably a Champion du Monde frame which was a European model. The frames were the same as the USA only Super Corsa and European Olympic models except they used Stronglight P3 headsets with a 38mm stack height instead of the 41mm Campy.

http://www.gitaneusa.com/images/catalog/1973/FR_1973_01.jpg

If the fork crown race is 27mm then it probably came with a Stronglight P3, if it's 26.4 it was Campy.

Stronglight A9 headsets work well but French threaded ones may be hard to find and they'd have a 27mm crown race.

Good luck.

_________________
Chas.
SF Bay Area, CA USA
==============
1984 Criterium
1969 TdF
1971 TdF
1974 TdF
1984 TdF x 2 Bikes
1970 SC
1971 SC
1972 SC
1984 SC
1984 Team Pro
1985 Professional
1990s Team Replica
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Headset problem resolution 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:52 pm Reply with quote
smilingroadrunner
Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 271
Location: Salina, Ks.
Well, since the last visit about this project, I received a Very nice, Very Clean Stronglight Competition headset from Ebay. ( French Thread, 26.4 crown race I.D. approx. 38mm Stack Height)

My Local Bike Shop owner was kind enough to let me "Dry Fit" the Crown Race & head tube components. The fork and frame assembly came together nicely --5 complete turns of the locknut with the loose fit 5/32 ball bearings.

I still want to try the Campagnolo headset--but it will have to wait (I forgot to take it along today).

Anyhow, the 41 mm stack height of the Campy setup likely won't fit safely, BUT it is reassuring that I have a nice older Stronglight v-race design that will work.

Dry fit of the bottom bracket & spindle with the Campy Veloce Triple crankset looks like it will line up. I'm waiting for the arrival of a Cyclus Bottom Bracket French thread tool from Italy to clean up some of the internal threads as the adjustable side cup is running into some interference (about 1-2mm shy of contact with the bottom bracket) So if I don't run into any chainline issues and proper function of the front Triple derailleur; then I'll get back to further paint removal.

My hope for possible chrome repair at some shops in McPherson didn't pan out. (they only do industrial chrome plating now) BUT the owner did give me a suggestion of a resource in the Kansas City area for the decorative chrome plating of the fork ends and rear stays.

More to come !

I Like Steel !!!
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C.A.
Salina, KS
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The Campagnolo headset fits 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:07 pm Reply with quote
smilingroadrunner
Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 271
Location: Salina, Ks.
Well, back to my LBS this afternoon with the NOS Campagnolo 1039 road headset ( This uses the Campy part # 2101 20 + 20 3/16" w bearing retainer )





Dry fit of the races, bearings, and cups and Hooray !!!
Very Happy it all fits, and again with plenty of threading for the lock nut.

I still can't explain---at this point I'm just pleased that this restoration of the Super Corsa frameset will include the proper Campy headset. (my micrometer shows a difference of approximate 38.8 mm headset space with the fork and frame head tube) Again there is adequate thread exposure for probably at least 5-6 full turns of the top locknut. So it should be Safe. Cool

Part of me suspects the V-shaped Stronglight Competition headset may be the better design.

Later, when final assembly happens I guess I'll have to decide about the Campy bearing set-up 20 + 20 w retainer or the option of 24 +24 5/32" loose bearings.

I Like Steel !!!
__________________

C.A.
Salina KS
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New Frankenbike project 
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