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Crissy Snow Knows Doping! 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 5:40 am Reply with quote
sandranian
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Funny story...

I was listening to the radio the other day (the Mark Levin show), and his guest was Suzanne Sommers, better known as the "Thigh Master" or her role on one of my favorite shows: Three's Company.

She was talking about her new book and the fact that she feels healthier than ever since her last bout of cancer, and the fact that she changed her eating habits to cut out any processed foods...yada yada yada.

Anyhow, she mentioned that men, in fact, should monitor their "hormone levels" and illustrated this fact by mentioning that her son, aged 36, had complained about being chronically fatigued. So she suggested that he have his hormone levels checked, which he at first poo-pooed...but then relented. Lo and behold, his testosterone levels were down, and his doctor prescribed a testosterone gel to help elevate his levels.

Well...Ms. Sommers said...after correcting his testosterone levels, his sex life improved and he had much more energy. So much so, that he was able to resume his daily regimen of riding 60-70 miles a day with his "peleton". I just laughed...thinking that of course he is doing better riding his bike...HE'S DOPING!

So...while Floyd Landis and Co. denied that testosterone did anything to help cyclists, EVEN CRISSY SNOW KNOWS THAT TESTOSTERONE WILL HELP YOU PERFORM BETTER ON THE BIKE.

HILARIOUS!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:42 am Reply with quote
Paul Wiseman
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Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

Great story!

Did anyone else guess who the mystery Italian cyclist who went positive for Cera at the Olympics was? No prizes there.......

Anyone want to place bets on how long before FL goes pos again and 'chooses' to retire gracefully with a wad of cash in his pocket, like another unnamed (TH) rider? Not that I'm bagging Americans. Doping has no borders. Just seems like some of these guys just don't have the ability to learn.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:09 am Reply with quote
sandranian
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In all fairness to TH and FL...

Tyler's doping affair cost him his marriage, most of his money, his dog died, and now he doesn't have a job. Really nothing left.

Floyd spent most of his money on his doping affair, it cost him his marriage, his uncle committed suicide at the start of the doping scandal.

Doping has utterly destroyed their lives. The sad part is that sports dopers are really drug addicts but do not get treated as such.

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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 2:33 am Reply with quote
Paul Wiseman
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I hear you. I think tragedy is the right word, and I don't mean that flipantly. I find it hard though, to strike the balance between them being victims or the products of their own choices. I certainly don't wish harm to befall anyone, but they did make their choices, and now it turns out that the price is higher than they ever expected. I guess my point is that if any 'normal' person made some really poor choices, let's say in the investment world, got nailed for fraudulent practices, went to jail, lost their marriage, their kids hate them, etc etc. Most of us would say well perhaps you should have thought about all that before you did what you did. Tough! That sounds really harsh when you type it out like that, but isn't that what we do as a society on a daily basis? Now there is some difference between criminal activity and sports doping, but they still could have thought about some implications. I really feel sorry for Tyler's wife (ex-wife). If it is true, and he was using homologous transfusions(someone else's blood), and sleeping with his wife............ 1+1=????? Think about the risk of infection here. Who's blood is it? What are their sexual practices? And to cap it off, what if she didn't know??? I have a pretty good idea how I would feel if my girl put me at that sort of risk and told me nothing. It would be a relationship killer for sure. So while I acknowledge the tragic turn their lives might have taken, I also don't want to swallow the media driven public sympathy campaign either. Having said all that, there needs to be money spent on support for these guys too. Tyler talks of depression. I really don't want to read another cycling news report like Theirry Claverolet or Marco Pantani. I would like to see repeat offenders out of the sport for good, but I would also like to see them have the opportunity to rebuild their lives and become more responsible citizens. Isn't that what the justice system is supposed to be about?

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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 4:59 am Reply with quote
sandranian
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I agree with what you are saying, and after re-reading my post, I could see how that would come across as being overly sympathetic. My comment regarding these guys being drug addicts was all-encompassing. If someone is found do be doing crack cocaine, they aren't necessarily believed when they say they aren't doing the drug...because drug addicts will almost always deny that they have a problem (like alcoholics). However, a good portion of cyclists and fans believe these guys when they deny that they are doping. And the punishment is merely a ban, not treatment. I would merely say that these cyclists are the stereotypical drugaddicts -- they are addicted to a high just like any, and should be treated as such. Not with leniency, but with more than merely punishment. I think it is worth considering that pro athletes are already "interesting" people who have focused everything on one goal. They are extremists to the extreme, and some tend to go that way on just about everything they try.

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Floyd Landis and AVN 
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 10:43 am Reply with quote
verktyg
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AVN or Avascular Necrosis is a breakdown of the blood supply to an area of bone. When this occurs in a joint the bone begins to deteriorate and cause damage to the cartilage and other tissue in the joint. This eventually results in bone to bone contact. AVN frequently occurs in the hands, knees and hips and is extremely painful.

There's scientific evidence that NSAIDs (non steroidal anti inflammatory drugs) like non prescription over the counter drugs such as aspirin, ibuprofen and naproxen plus a multitude of prescription anti inflammatory pain killing drugs can cause increases or decreases in the serum levels of testosterone and related hormones. Was Floyd Landis taking any anti inflammatory drugs or legal pain killers? There may be no way of determining if these legal drugs can alter the results of a doping test, especially for a recently developed test and drug. I've never seen any mention of this.

The way in which Floyd Landis' blood samples were handled would have been thrown out as evidence in any court in the US. France uses the archaic Napoleonic Legal Code which assumes that an individual is guilty until proven innocent (or not guilty).

I developed AVN in my right hip in 1999 and experienced chronic pain for about 4-5 years. There was about a 6 month period of excruciating pain. I could stand still or lay flat on my back. All other activities felt like I was getting kicked in the groin region. I had to use crutches to get around. I eventually underwent THR - Total Hip Replacement surgury. Since then I've been able to resume a normal life and get back to cycling. My Doctor told me if I want the hip joint to last, "No running, jumping, tennis, skiing or backpacking - also no cleats or clipless pedals (in case I have to get out of them in a hurry)."

I'm not trying to garner sympathy for myself but merely explaining some of the symptoms associated with AVN. I was on massive doses of various NSAIDs plus occasionally narcotics for the pain.

I admire Floyd Landis not only for continuing to race professionally while experiencing AVN but to ride in the TdF. Under the shadow of reasonable doubt concerning how his blood samples were handled and the political environment surrounding back to back wins of the TdF by Americans, I think that Floyd should have received the benefit of the doubt in this case.

In my mind the kangaroo court cases proved nothing! Evil or Very Mad

Chas.
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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 11:53 am Reply with quote
sandranian
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OK...now that you have taken the bait....

Regarding the chain of custody argument...that is a moot point. He is an athlete who competes under a code that is not subject to the rules of the US Courts. You may be right: The results may have been thrown out of a US Court (and OJ went free as well, by the way), but it doesn't matter, because he was playing by a different set of rules.

And he was innocent...until he failed a drug test. It is the same in the USA. You are innocent until you are caught running the red light. Then, you have to go to court and (the reality is) you have to prove that you didn't do it. All the Policeman has to say is that he saw you do it...and you are guilty unless you prove otherwise. I know that in theory you are innocent, but once there is evidence against you, the reality is that you must show otherwise (i.e. produce an alibi, or show that the evidence is wrong).

Landis didn't bring up the defenses you mention because he couldn't. He hired the best experts he could find to put on his fundraising show, and it didn't do anything for him. I don't buy any of the crap that the French just wanted to bust an American. Give me a break. That sounds like the typical explanation of people who get caught and then cry that they were framed...or the "Man" had it out for them. And if they ever wanted to frame someone, why not Armstrong? Why someone like Landis? Was Hamilton framed too?

One of Landis' main arguments was that there was no reason to take Testosterone, because it doesn't help. But that makes no sense...because tons of cyclists use it. Another Spanish cyclist just tested positive today for testosterone...but I am sure he didn't do it either, the test was screwed up, he absorbed a twin while in the womb, or the testers hate Spaniards, or they dropped the sample on the way to the lab...or the test itself doesn't work.

The subject is a pisser. What a drag!

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The value of experts and expert witneses 
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 7:16 pm Reply with quote
verktyg
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Stephan,

From you legal experience, I'm sure that you've seen cases where expert witnesses and other lawyers have redirected the issues to totally and many times irrelevant directions. Did that happen with Floyd's experts too?

1. My point is that Landis was taking UCI legal cortisone shots in his hip for pain and inflammation plus a small amount of hormone for a thyroid condition. AVN IS PAINFUL! Was he taking any other legal treatment such as a NSAID?

2. NSAIDs can and do cause a temporary spike in serum testosterone levels for up to 8 days. After that there is a paradoxical effect and the levels decrease. I've never seen where that issue has been addressed.

3. Testosterone has been used for treating AVN and other severe forms of arthritis. Who's to say that some doc or trainer didn't unwittingly shoot him up with some testosterone before the stage. A single shot of testosterone would provide little or no performance benefit.

4. "The first thing an anti-doping lab looks for in such a case is the ratio of testosterone to the isomeric epitestosterone - too high an imbalance is physiologically unlikely and arouses suspicion." I've not seen any reference to the effects of cortisone or thyroid hormones of testosterone.

5. "His body, in an attempt to recover [referring to AVN], will naturally release more testosterone as part of the recovery process," Eliot says. Also "who knows what he is taking for the pain and this too could interfere with the testing results."

"Exactly when he tested positive is also somewhat suspicious. The test was done at stage 17, which coincides with one of the most intense parts of the race. The more heavily we exert ourselves, the more naturally our body releases testosterone,"... John Eliot, PhD, a professor of human performance at Rice University in Houston

As far as Landis loosing 8 minutes on stage 16 then coming back to within a 1/2 minute of Óscar Pereiro on stage 17 and then winning the TT on 18, look at the records of all of the great cyclists of the past; many of them have had the same kind of come from behind victories, Greg Lemond included. Landis didn't fall off of a turnip truck. He had a long successful racing career before this event.

Le Monde reported that Pereiro also tested positive during the 2006 Tour de France. They claim that salbutamol was found in two urine samples, produced after stages 14 (Montélimar - Gap, in which Pereiro finished 26th) and 16 (Bourg-d'Oisans - La Toussuire, 3rd place).

"Salbutamol is commonly used to treat asthma symptoms, and is allowed to be used in cycle racing if the cyclist can provide a medical prescription for the substance. It is alleged that the International Cycling Union gave Pereiro retroactive permission to use the substance on medical grounds after the positive tests. The French anti-doping agency questions the veracity of the medical grounds. It demanded that Pereiro verify the grounds for the use of salbutamol within a week. France's anti-doping agency dropped its investigation, saying Pereiro provided sufficient justification for use of the asthma medication." *

*http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycling/2007-01-25-pereiro-case-dropped_x.htm

FLOYD GOT JOBBED! Crying or Very sad

Chas. Cui Bono
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=) 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:28 am Reply with quote
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Crissy Snow Knows Doping! 
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